Walter O'Neal is a renowned art designer, painter, illustrator, and sculptor in the collectibles industry. His work has been featured by DC Direct, Marvel Studios, Sideshow Collectibles, Tweeterhead, and many others. He is also the artist who created all of the artwork featured here at Come to Yourself.
Walter specializes in working on projects that have strong narrative underpinnings and bringing those words to life in the form of fully realized thoughtful characters that have been deeply considered with no arbitrary elements in their design
In our discussion, Walter explains the difficulties in creating art for self vs creating commissioned work for others and how he has found tools to help him navigate and integrate both aspects into his creative life in order to remain spiritually accountable.
Walter's art can be viewed here
Resources recommended by Walter:
Walter O'Neal is a renowned art designer, painter, illustrator, and sculptor in the collectibles industry. His work has been featured by DC Direct, Marvel Studios, Sideshow Collectibles, Tweeterhead, and many others. He is also the artist who created all of the artwork featured here at Come to Yourself.
Walter specializes in working on projects that have strong narrative underpinnings and bringing those words to life in the form of fully realized thoughtful characters that have been deeply considered with no arbitrary elements in their design
In our discussion, Walter explains the difficulties in creating art for self vs creating commissioned work for others and how he has found tools to help him navigate and integrate both aspects into his creative life in order to remain spiritually accountable.
Walter's art can be viewed here
Resources recommended by Walter:
Hey, this is Gretchen with come to yourself.com, sitting down with artist, Walter O'Neal to discuss spiritual accountability and how he serves his soul's purpose. Morning! you know, we are both up at the butt crack of Dawn........ full disclosure, obviously we're related, you can tell by the resemblance. Yeah. So, u h, I just wanted to talk to you a bit about being an artist and how it informs your spirituality, your identity, your identity. U m, and so first question, what is your earliest memory of being an artist?
Walter:Um, probably just, uh, you know, uh, preschool elementary school stuff, uh, coloring with crayons and coloring books. Um, just being encouraged to, um, you know, continue to, to color and draw as a little kid.
Gretchen:You feel something when you would color and draw as a kid, did it feel organic to you or did it just feel like no different than playing with like matchbox cars or something?
Walter:It's hard to describe. It's maybe like, um, for me it's like a, it's a process that when you start, you feel like you kind of need to see it to the end. Like, um, almost like when you, uh, on the playground, what you get to the top of the slide, once you start sliding down, you got to go to the bottom, right? Like that's, that's how the whole thing works. So that's what art feels like to make. Once you can start working on something, you just need to keep following it down until the, the ride is over. So, um, that's something I did recognize as a kid, you know, you're drawing a lot of car. You don't feel like you've done it until all the wheels are there, but it feels like a car, you know? Um, so that, that still translates to adults or, uh, you know, the project doesn't feel complete until it's, you don't feel like you can walk away from it until it's done done. Yeah.
Gretchen:And you literally mean walk away from it. Like I remember growing up, you would, even as a young kid, you would be up all night if you start at something.
Walter:Yeah. Um, it's, it's kinda like an itch that you keep scratching and it doesn't feel satisfied until like the entire thing's over. And then if you're like, okay, I can be done with that and walk away to something else, even then there's still twinges of if we're to walk by it and you're like, Hmm, let me get this thing. I'm still not with that.
Gretchen:So beyond this need for completion, um, did you have any other feelings when you created art as a kid? Was it a feeling of accomplishment or, or purposeful?
Walter:Um, yeah, it's, uh, it totally feels like a sense of accomplishment. It feels like you did something. Um, it almost feels like solving a Rubik's cube or something. It's like, you, you got to the final picture where everything's complete and then you're like, okay, I can put this down and then pick up a different puzzle and try and solve that.
Gretchen:Is that the same feeling you have today?
Walter:Uh, to a certain extent? Yeah.
Gretchen:What do you think has changed between then and now if you can,
Walter:Um, probably just the ability to turn it on and off and to be able to walk away from stuff. Um, uh, and that's something that comes if you're going to choose, uh, to be an artist as a profession. Um, just because now you're not working for yourself, you're working for somebody else. Um, so the job is over when the deadline hits or they say it's done, it doesn't matter what you think anymore. You're not in the final arbiter.
Gretchen:So you've had to learn to walk away, even if you're not completely satisfied.
Walter:Oh, sure. Um, yeah. And, uh, having to walk away knowing that there's things that you don't like about something, and that's tough, that's just how it is. And that's how the world is going to see it and perceive it forever. And you just have to live with it
Gretchen:In any way. Does that feel a little less authentic?
Walter:Um, Hmm, not really. Um, it feels like a, uh, maybe like a race or a competition, you know? Um, like if you're the, if you're at the Olympics, even though you, you hold the world record may be separately, either win or lose the Olympics, it's its own separate thing. So that'll always stick with you one way or the other, whether you won or lost it, uh, despite your other accomplishments in the same field, like you always looked back at that one thing and go, yeah, that's when I lost the Olympics. That's when I came in second. So would always stick there with you, but the amount of you care about it gets less and less. The more projects you do,
Gretchen:Have you ever finished something for a job where it didn't feel complete to you and you came back to it on your own later?
Walter:Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Um, sometimes you do that. If it's something that you're gonna showcase in your portfolio, sometimes you might still tweak it before you put it up to the world, even though that's the version of you, you sent because it's your portfolio, right? You get to put up whatever you want. No one asked you, don't ask to give you the high five to say, yes, you can include this piece. So if you're going to put it in there and you can put it with extra tweaks, some extra sauce,
Gretchen:But again, that was more for a business purpose. It was for your portfolio. It wasn't necessarily you coming back to it because you personally couldn't let it go.
Walter:Well, it's, it's kind of both. So like the, the, the version you deliver to the client, that's the business transaction. Right. But if you, if there was something like say the client decided that they wanted something green and you wanted it red and said, all right, well, you can give it to them green for their version, but if you want to display it for yourself, why not make it, you know, like once you make that client version, they have what they want. If you want to then invest extra effort to turn it into something that you're more happy with or you're happier with it. Yeah. Especially if it's just a little bit of time. What
Gretchen:If it's a lot of time? Would you still do it?
Walter:No. That's time that's better spent, um, uh, moving forward in another direction.
Gretchen:Uh, but would you say your younger self, like, let's say, you know, ten-year-old Walter would be able to let it go as easily as 40 something year old Walter can.
Walter:Oh, absolutely not. Uh, that's something that you learn over time, uh, and you learn, you know, the, the more, uh, whatever, whatever the art form is, the more of it you do, like the more winters you see, whatever that saying is, um, so, you know, if you, if you've only done five projects, every one of those projects is like 20, 20% of your artistic career. You know, that 20%, if it means something, but if you've done a thousand projects, what is one out of the thousands? You know, it's a drop in the bucket. Um, so you're able to, um, uh, carry the wins and losses easier in your own mind, because in most cases there'll be more wins that you can hold on to. And there'll be more successes than failures, especially if you're doing this as your job.
Gretchen:Yeah. I find it interesting that, um, you characterize your work as a win and a loss or a success in a failure versus just a piece, you know, just a piece of art, you know, there's out there. Do, does it feel like, like when you put it out there that it's something that is, you know, either a, a triumph or a failure I see, is, is that the emotion that comes to you that comes to when you produce something?
Walter:Uh, certainly, um, because it, you know, it's a success or failure, depending on its usefulness to the client, if it's a client piece, you know, um, so it's accessible if they like it and they paid me for it, but that is its own success. But then there's the, uh, the success on top of that is, is this something that you then want to use to represent yourself going forward? Is this something that you want to put, something that you want to have people recognize and it's your work? Um, so not every piece that you work on, like crosses that boundary where you're like, no, no, this piece is going to represent me now for the next two, three, four, five, 10 years. Um, so there's, there's a success or failure in that regard where you're like, yes, I spent the time, however much time it took to get, to make the client happy. But then this piece useful to me as a branding, as something to represent me going forward. And then that's either a yes or no.
Gretchen:So when you say your art represents you, how does it represent you? What do you mean by that?
Walter:Being a professional artist is like, um, it's a career almost where you're, you're putting your resume, not on LinkedIn, but it's like, you're spreading it out everywhere. And your resume is all the stuff you've worked on. It's all the images that you then want the world to associate with you and your name. Um, so like that in and of itself is itself, uh, it's own beast that you have to wrangle, uh, getting people to associate certain images with you and getting that stuff in the sticks so that when they see it, they go, Oh yeah, that's you I'm like that's its own all the wax to try and figure it out.
Gretchen:So let me ask a question though, and I'll just keep referring to it as ten-year-old Walter. Uh, do you think ten-year-old Walter saw the artwork that he did as being or cared about it, representing his ability or representing something about his spirit itself?
Walter:Um, I think 10 year old, Walter just cared more so about it representing, um, his ability to make snow. So it was just more of a, um, a checkbox like this, this thing looked like a house. Yes or no. This, somebody recognize this thing is the thing that I'm trying to make the recognize. Right. Um, so that's the stuff you start off with as a kid. This is like a dog. This is like a cat, like a cloud. Can people recognize the thing that I like, I scribble on paper. People recognize that as a thing. Right. Um, so that it just gets that process just gets more and more complicated as you get older. And you, uh, you dive more into the art just because instead of wanting somebody to recognize the thing that you're making out of, you want somebody to, uh, to react to it. You want them to have an emotion. You want them to get some kind of like physical or emotional response when they see your stuff. So it's, it's along the same lines. And in that you want somebody to recognize what your scribbles are in a way, other than scribbles on a page. Um, but it's just the, the thing that you want someone to feel gets more complicated and like, that's how you're adding the skills and the skillset is can I make you sad?
Gretchen:When do you think it changed for you where you wanted to have your art evoke? Some kind of a reaction in somebody beyond just, Oh, that's cool. Or, you know, like you're talented, like where you, you wanted them to have some kind of a emotional connection to what you were creating.
Walter:Um, I'm not sure when exactly that happened, maybe the high school. Um, but it's just, you kind of crossed the threshold where, um, you know, drawing photos isn't, um, doesn't cut it anymore because like that, that's the goal that a lot of artists chase just getting started is how realistic can I make something? And that just means how well can I copy this photo of the thing that already exists. Um, and, uh, that is its own skillset. Just being able to replicate something that already exists. But after you do that, several times, that stops being enough. Like, uh, it just becomes more of an exercise. Uh, like I dunno, doing scales making, if you're a singer, it just becomes, um, you're not necessarily proving anything to yourself by doing it again. It's like, at some point you're like, yes, I can copy photos. Do I need to copy another photo to prove that I can copy, shot us? Like, it's it stopped being the challenge. Um, that's interesting to you if you're, if you're trying to constantly get better. So then you're like, okay, well what's next. If I can make you recognize anything, it's, it's, it's be realistic. Um, when I put the scribbles on the page, then what else can I make you recognize
Gretchen:At this point? Did you feel that your, uh, imagination, your creativity really started to become more important to express?
Walter:Um, yeah. At some point you start realizing that you want to have something to say, or, uh, like you want to, there's something that you want to convey to somebody rather than, you know, this is a bowl of fruit on the table. Um, and then once you identify that, like that, that's the goal you want to make people feel something, then that just opens up all new avenues of, okay, how am I going to take that? What happened first year to make that happen?
Gretchen:So this is a, this is a question from somebody who clearly, uh, does not have a imagination that then I can translate into an artistic creation. So the, the creation processes is super fascinating to me. I don't understand how you have, uh, original creative vision or thought, and then, you know, put that out, you know, whether it's in a, in a, a painting or a sculpture, how does, how does the inspiration to start? How does the creative moment occur for you?
Walter:Um, there will just be some something unique that sticks out either about the, the subject matter or the, the, the visual puzzle that you're trying to solve. Um, because to me at this point, there's, there's no, uh, there's nothing exciting about doing something I've already done several times before, so that there's always something new. Okay. So what am I doing new in this piece that I haven't done before? And then that becomes the, the challenge, the thing that you're trying to solve. Um, and that's no different than, um, you know, algebra or any kind of math problems or chemistry or any kind of any kind of, uh, scientific or, um, you know, right. Brain process was that my brain, whatever. Um, any one of those intellectual processes where, you know, there's, there's a series of rules, um, and using those rules, you will solve the equation, the problem that puzzle, the geometry, uh, proof, you know, it's like you have these tools at your disposal and then that's the end result you might get. So how do you get these tools to turn the back? Um, and then that's, that's the fun part, um, just because you kind of have to start chipping away at it. And it's, that's the part where you're testing yourself and actually growing, cause you haven't done this before, so you need to stretch yourself in order to be able to cover this new area
Gretchen:Based on this conversation. It seems like for you. And like I say, correct me if I'm wrong in this characterization, but it seems like for you, that art is almost the means to the end and not the end in the sense of the goal in the end for you seems to be the challenge of, of solving a problem or, uh, creating something that hasn't been out there before. And that itself is a problem, you know, and that's the puzzle that you're trying to solve, but it's about, it's about that challenge. It's about setting a goal for yourself. That is something that hasn't been achieved that you are aware of and going for it. And you use art as your way of, of you doing that exercise. Is that a fair statement?
Walter:Uh, yes, very much so. Um, uh, what can I hear this too? Uh, maybe like, uh, working out, uh, if you, if you have the same five day routine and you did it for two years, you know, like just on Monday, I do arms on Timmy, baby legs, whatever it is. If you do that same routine for two years, at some point, your body just goes, yeah, we know, we know. So you, you start getting any, um, like you stop getting, uh, the same type of benefits from it that you did originally, originally that workout, uh, caused you to grow. Now that workouts just cause you to maintain at bets, right? So you constantly have to introduce new things that are different to, um, that your body's not used to doing order to kind of like shock it into now being able to cover this new area that you're asking it to, to cover. So it's, it's the same thing, heart touristically, if that makes any sense, just that you're looking for a new problem to test yourself against, in order to like excite all the things in you that make you inspire to solve it.
Gretchen:Well, that to me is really interesting because I would venture to say that that's not the same feeling for every artist across the board. You know, I would probably say that I'm sure that there are artists that simply create for the joy of the expression of the creation to have an original thought in, just put it out on the page. You know, what you're describing is a separate, extra element. That's, that's the same kind of element that an Einstein or anybody else that wanted to, you know, take things a step further, you know, not, not content with, what's been explained as this is what it is and feel this drive to, you know, see what else is out there, including just in yourself, seeing what else is out there in yourself. Do you feel that when you serve that purpose, when you're not doing that artistically, that you're not necessarily feeling like your authentic self,
Walter:Um, it, it makes me wonder why I'm doing the thing. You know, if, if there is no, um, immediate, like if I can look at the thing and instantly check all the boxes that this is how I would do all of that, um, a to me that's, that makes it a lot less exciting. Uh, just because there's, um, there is that, that difference between, uh, you know, knowing what to do and executing what to do, but at some point the execution, isn't an issue. Like you're not looking at yourself and going, am I going to be able to draw this? And you're like, yeah, I know I can draw it. It's just is me drawing that, going to deliver the, the end result that I'm hoping for. Um, and the closer that gets to certainty before you start, you're like, like, if you look at that thing and go, okay, 95%, I can knock something out in the park, then you go, okay, well, why bother then? Um, because if you've gotten to that point, you've probably got so many things that are so similar to it. What is doing this thing gonna do for you give, if it's a, if it's a hired assignment that someone's paying you to make this thing, okay, well then that's your goal is your goal is to, But if it's, if it's not a paying gig and this isn't something that you're doing for you, why are you doing? Um, because if you're just doing laps around the track, that you've always done the same labs at some point, you just, why am I doing? Um, cause like, okay, so even if you look at, um, Jim Davis, the guy who does, uh, Garfield, right? Uh, what Garfield looked like in book one versus what Garfield looks like book 20, like 10, 15, 20 years later, it's completely different cat. Like it's a completely different thing that he's drawing, but he's still saying it's the same character. So how is he transitioning from, you know, this, this big, which a loaf of bread, looking cat to this more streamlined lanky limbed cat. And he's still saying, it's the same thing. Well, it's just, that's his growth as an artist is this, this he's constantly resolving the same problem. He's coming down to his desk and go, okay, what does Garfield look like to, you know, a guy who's been doing this for one year, what is that character look like to guide who's now as the skillset of somebody doing this for five years, and he's just, he's not being married to the thing just because that's how it is in the first place.
Gretchen:And so the growth process through art is what you feel is, is serving you it's, it's, what's feeding you.
Walter:Um, yes. Uh, that is the only thing that, um, that is why I chose this as a career versus any other time, uh, because, you know, uh, formerly working as an accountant, timecards, timecards, um, and you're not, I don't know that you're going to see the same kind of growth year over year, doing time part at a time card. Um, at some point it's not going to be a challenge for you, it's just going to be going through the motions. Um, yeah,
Gretchen:I feel like we're talking about growth and obviously we're relating it more to, you know, maybe you're a growth in your skill set or a growth in your talent. Do you feel that it also involves a growth in your spirit and your identity and your personality as well?
Walter:Uh, yeah, I think it kind of has to, um, cause what we're talking about is, um, kind of having something to say and, uh, something that you want other people to feel like that doesn't come easily. That's something you have to work on. It comes over time. Um, so just your ability to kind of work in that space, um, like as you, um, as you master a subject, mastering a subject, basically in my opinion means being able to perceive and manipulate more and more subtle things in that, in that subject matter. Um, so like the difference between being able to see something that's black versus white, right? It's the highest contrast you can see, anybody can see that, but can you see something that's, you know, like if we've got 245 levels of gray, can you tell the difference between one 33 and one 34 it's like that kind of stuff to be able to see that that's clearly different and I can tweak those now because I can see that difference in, I can perceive it, um, that stuff that only comes with the mastery of a subject. Um, and that's something that I think being able to key into more emotional stuff like that comes with the mastery of the tools and the techniques and the art form is like, once you have all that stuff down, I don't like once you master an instrument, I don't want to play twinkle, twinkle little star anymore. Yeah. I want to play more complicated stuff because I can't,
Gretchen:You talked about being an accountant, there was a part in, uh, a time in your life when you walked away from art, certainly as a, as a profession, did you walk from it personally
Walter:During that time as well? Were you not creating anything during that time? Uh, I was creating very low. Um, I just wasn't flexing any, any part of any of those muscles? Really? Why did you feel like you had to do that personally? I think it was, uh, if anything, it ended up being more, a form of a reset, uh, because going through art school, especially as young as I did, because I was like 18 straight out of high school. Um, so high school is, uh, with all the academic stuff. It's very binary. It's very, it's straight up a meritocracy, right? Uh, you score a 95 on that test. You know, you get an, a score less than that. You get a lesser grade. It's just what it is, what it is. Um, the art stuff since so much of it can be subjective. Um, you're then having to filter so much of it through people's opinions that, uh, at some point you have to decide, okay, well that's what this person believes. That's what that person believes. What do I believe? What is, what is my culture, Hispanic? I know what that guy writes. I know what that personalizing, what do I like in the absence of therapy? So it takes a minute to get to that point where you decide that your voice is as important to you as other people's voices, more important to you than other people's voices. Well, yes, but you have to, you have to get to the point where you decide it's as important first before it's more important. Um, just because the way that those structures are set up, you know, you have a teacher, so that teacher's opinion is more important than yours kids. That person is experienced. They've got this position of authority and they've got more miles locked on the odometer. So, um, the difference of opinion, you just skew. Okay. Well, clearly they have to know better than me because they've got all the stuff on the side. Um, but as you get older and you log your own miles, um, you start to understand like, okay, well now I don't just have to acquiesce just because that's what you want or that's what you think is correct. Um, and it takes a lot of courage to like to understand that that's what you're doing. You're, you're, um, you're standing on your own and you're saying, okay, I think my opinion carries just as much weight as yours. To me, that's a hard one. Valuing yourself in general is a hard one, especially over people that you had to place in a position over, then take those people off that pedestal or to put yourself on one right next to it. Uh, however, you know, you're, you're rationalizing it to yourself, but that has to happen.
Gretchen:Do you think if you didn't go to art school? Cause I mean, obviously when you went to, um, college, that was the first time that you had been really in a completely immersive art environment. Um, if you think you didn't do that, if you think maybe you just kept creating on your own, maybe took a class here or there, if you felt you needed it, you know, to learn a skill set, but not necessarily throwing yourself into such a subjective environment at that age. Um, do you think you would have found value in your own voice sooner or later than you did?
Walter:Um, I probably would have found that sooner. Um, I think that's one of the things that, uh, our environments kind of beat out of you is, um, your kind of your belief in yourself and what you were doing is correct. Um, a lot of that stuff gets supplanted with, uh, Oh no, that guy's better than you saying you should be doing more or that person's got this technique now, so you need to pick that up. So you need to start doing what they're doing. Very rarely you get told no, and do more of what you're already. Um, but the trade off there, I think is, um, what that school environment does is it's a bit of a pressure cooker where, um, it's kind of like a hive-mind thing where you're surrounded by a ton of people who all basically have the same goals. So you're all going to push each other to get better, faster than you would working by yourself in a vacuum. So, um, I spent four years in college, um, and that four years I think upped my technical ability by leaps and bounds, but, uh, I can, um, probably stunted my ability to do, um, really express myself personally, uh, just because it introduced a lot of doubt, um, where there had not been doubt previously,
Gretchen:Do you always correlate, um, your soul's purpose to a career or a job?
Walter:Uh, no, to me, those are, those are two completely different, um, cause your, your job is it's your, your money making deal, right? Like that's why it exists. You do that to pay your bills so that you can live. I think most people, if they didn't have to do their current job, they probably wouldn't. Um, it's weather know, I hate Mondays. Well, that's the path. Um, but, uh, I don't think your job necessarily has to be your purpose in life. It just ends up being most people's purpose in life, just as it takes up. The majority of people's waking hours may end up focusing on whatever their career. Um, but I don't think that that has to be what you were going to plan.
Gretchen:So then what happens with people who turn their soul's purpose? Let, like, let's say their soul's purposes to create, you know, art, right. To create something that, um, evokes emotion in others or, you know, um, helps other people have something to hold on to, to help process their, their emotions through, right? Whether it's a piece of music or a visual piece of art. Um, so if that is your soul's purpose, and then you turn that into a job, you know, that becomes your career. How does that work? If, if, like you said, for the majority of people, their job isn't, you know, what makes them whole, or what serves them because of all the partnerships, the that comes with working a job, you know, in our society, what happens when you identify your soul's purpose and you turn it into something that, you know, is a societal job to pay your bills. Does it taint it for you? Does it, does it make you less inclined to pursue it?
Walter:Um, I think in order to turn, like what you're, if it's your life's purpose, I think in order to turn it into a career, you have to have a pretty good handle on, um, like the, you have to understand the thing from top to bottom in order to be able to separate, um, your ego from the process. Um, because what's going to make you hate it is, uh, doing it for somebody else is the conflict, the disagreement between what you want and what the client wants. That's the only thing that's gonna make you not like it, because why else would they just say, Hey, make whatever you want. We'll pay you as much money as you like. Okay, great. It's just when those factors change, that's when, um, issues arise. And so this is something you don't want to do, but we're not paying you money or, uh, you know, the deadline super tight. Um, it's, it's one of those factors that then steal some of the joy from the, but you have to understand what part of the process is like, like as an artist, uh, you spend a lot of the time in a room alone by yourself. So if that's the part of the process that you'd like, they guess where that shows up every time that's going to be there, every job, it's you concentrating by yourself, working in the room by yourself. Um, so it's just understanding that and not getting married to the stuff that's, um, is out of your control. Like just hold onto the stuff that you can change and all the stuff that you can't change. If you can get your ego past caring about that stuff,
Gretchen:Did you ever experience any, you know, what other people may call, like, you know, the dark night of the soul, you know, did you ever experience any points in time in your artistic process where it, it, it hurt more than it created joy?
Walter:Um, only when I felt overwhelmed, um, only when the, um, what's being asked of you kind of gets outside of your skillset too much. Um, so, uh, you know, when we were talking before about, um, enjoying projects that are challenging, right. Solving the puzzle. Yes. Okay. So that only works if you have a puzzle that you know how to solve, right? So when someone then presents you with a puzzle that you don't know how to solve and not have the tools to solve it, that are still on the hook for solving it, that's where the issues come in. Um, um, when something is just so completely out of your scope, and there's just so much to learn in order to cover all the bases, that's when, um, it's panic inducing. And that happens a lot, especially early on, because that's when you're going to be confronted with the most things that you haven't done yet, because you haven't done. So that, that stuff I think happens, certainly happens to me in college. But, uh, it happens to a lot of people, I think in that college environment where it's the first time you're being put on task and expected to, um, you know, get it done no matter what,
Gretchen:Was there a moment during that time, when you maybe thought I can't do this, I can't do this whole thing. Like it became beyond just, I can't solve this problem, this puzzle, it may be created out where I can't solve a lot of puzzles and therefore, maybe I shouldn't consider doing this.
Walter:Oh, um, like those moments show up all the time. Um, uh, it's, it's a constant process of patting yourself on the back and then yourself apart of like, I saw that aren't I so smart, the next one comes up and you can't solve it. And you're like, I'm the worst person. I don't know how to do this. I'm a fraud. I don't know why people pay me. And it's that back and forth minute by minute throughout the entire process of making. Anyway,
Gretchen:You personally worked for that. I mean, you've been doing this now for decades. What tools have you come up with personally to get over that hump?
Walter:Um, it sucks every time it doesn't get easier. Um, and it doesn't like the only thing that makes it easier to have faith in yourself. It's just the fact that you've done it so many times, but every time it pops up, you're like, okay, no, this is the one that's going to break me every single time. This is the puzzle. I'm not going to be able to solve. This is the thing I'm not going to be able to look correct. Make look right. And then once you've figured out a cool done, and then maybe the next one goes quickly and then you're like, I'm a genius. And then the next one trips you up. And you're like, I I'm terrible. I should be fired. Why, why would they let me do this? And it's like that every single time. Um, and you just have to be okay with that and recognize that that's what's happening. Like recognize that you're doubting yourself and just keep your head down and keep doing it eventually on a long enough timeline. Uh, I think every artist figures out, I'll get it eventual. It's just, how long has that timeline? You have to work with
Gretchen:Not turning back, not quitting the whole process in general, but saying, okay. Maybe I didn't figure this one out. So next time I'll work harder. I'll develop the skill set in between to try to figure it out in the future.
Walter:Yeah. All those failures stick with me. So, um, that either means that in the next one, you'll either steer more into it where you're like, okay, I need to be more aggressive than I need to understand more about whatever it was. Tripping me up where you'll go the complete opposite. Me, never doing that again. I'm just going to stay over in this corner when you're trying to any of that, you're trying to hire him for any of this stuff. Nope. Nope.
Gretchen:Described a lot of instances, obviously in your, uh, career and in your process where you have highs and lows and so far as you know, self-congratulation and then, you know, self-flagellation almost, um, have you had to over the course of your lifetime, cause you've been doing this since you were a kid, um, have you had to work on creating certain tools or processes to help keep you moving forward so that you don't ever get stuck or down a hole or concerns with your mental wellbeing and general health?
Walter:Um, yeah, absolutely. Uh, especially, um, since I work in a visual medium in the collectibles industry, um, there's, you know, um, there are form boards and, uh, congregations of where people come together to speak about the stuff that you make. Um, and you can read that stuff or not read that stuff, but, uh, the world is having a conversation about your work. Um, and you can, it's there for you to tap into. Um, now that just that being available there, being the conduit for you to hear firsthand, what people have to say about your work. Um, I think it's, it's a, it's a blessing and a curse. Um, uh, but it's something that you kind of need to work by yourself in order to tap into, um, because, uh, anytime somebody reads something in print, you, part of you wants to think it's true. Uh, and it's not like, uh, anybody exists on form boards, uh, for any reason other than entertainment. So those people are there to entertain themselves in each other and sometimes it's at your expense. Um, but you have to understand, uh, if there's any truth to the things that they're saying, if they, if somebody is saying that your, um, your processes, the piece that you make is terrible, um, you have to decide whether or not you think that they're right. Um, and then sometimes the correct answer is yes, they are right. You did drop the ball on that. Um, and you have to, um, you have to let that information not break you. Like you have to be able to accept that information, uh, in a way that is helpful, even if it's not presented in a helpful way. And the only way that you can do that is by working on yourself as a person, um, it's by really getting your ego teamed check, um, and you're spending what it is that you're bringing to the process.
Gretchen:It'd be fair to say that sometimes maybe you use those, uh, forums almost as a form of accountability,
Walter:Um, to a certain extent, I think so. Um, just because you like you and your mind have an opinion on how something went, you know, you participate in something, you have an idea of how it went and how you perform. Um, so part of me wants to know if that lines up with the, the accepted perception of what the, like the story the world is telling about what happened versus the story you're telling it, your own head. Uh, and I think there's a certain level of like accountability, but, um, like there's a certain level of earnestness and, uh, just being an adult, just to be able to process that stuff and not let it, uh, destroy you or not, not think that somehow you need to cater to those, those voices at the same time. Um, you know, like you see a movie review going on at school, but if like Cisco and Hebrew said that they didn't like something, um, is that next filmmaker going to be able to make his next film without having those words in his head know they said something was corny. Is he going to be able to still write the same type of dialogue that he enjoys without having an office in the back of his center? Um, it's yeah, it's, it's a tough thing to do, but, um, it's, in my opinion, it's necessary. I, I don't believe when people say, Oh, I don't read any of that stuff. It's like, why not? Why not? To me, there's no good reason not to read it. Um, you don't need to believe it, but you need them
Gretchen:Well. And the, on that, like if it was me, you know, obviously I'm not being criticized in a public forum on regular basis, but if it was me, I would probably handle it the same way that you do in the sense of, I would read it, I would process it and I would use it to actually ask myself those questions, you know, did I, did I mess up, you know, by putting this over here or did I, you know, not stay true to a character and not stay true to something else because I, I chose to interpret it this way, you know? And in that way, I've, I feel like it is a form of accountability, not necessarily to anybody else, but to my own process, because if I then answer those questions and come back with, nah, you know what, I'm cool with what I did and not based in ego, but based in, you know, I'm going back. And I'm really understanding that what I put forward was my authentic self. It was my, you know, interpretation of whatever the statue is and, you know, therefore I am, I am good with this. It may not be well received. I can accept that. But you know, on staying true to who I am, and I stayed true to who I was when I created that, you know, and in that way, I'm accountable to myself. I've held my soul accountable and yeah, I'm good.
Walter:Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent.
Gretchen:But like you said, that's a skillset. That's not something you walk in the door with your first project and your first set of reviews and, and can do
Walter:Yes. Um, well, yeah, it's, uh, I think everybody needs strengths. Like you need a certain amount of stress in order to grow in any given direction. Um, so I think we, like, you need physical stress as far as like lifting weights, gym work. Like that's what makes your body grow? I think we all need a certain extent of emotional slash um,
Gretchen:Tension. Like that's why tension is there.
Walter:Yes. You need to be pushed in order to be able to grow in material. So I think it's, it's good. I don't want to say it's good to have negativity in your life, but to a certain extent you shouldn't be shielding yourself from that person.
Gretchen:Would you say that you walk towards the struggle or walk away from the struggle? What is your natural instinct do?
Walter:Um, my natural instinct, uh, does the math for me really quick on what I think I'd want to get on that shuttle. And then I decide whether or not I want to engage in that or not. Um, uh, just like earlier we were talking about, um, you know, replicating photographs. It's, uh, you know, it's, it's a skillset, but it's, it's, I won't say it's a shallow Spencer. Um, and once you kind of get your head around being able to do it, why you would do it again, I don't know, you know, cause you've already proven that you can do it. So, um, uh, I, I, I don't know what it, what you get out of it besides just here's another, there's another instance.
Gretchen:Well, like I said, there are people who, who need that safety and security, you know, that, that constant, that repetition, you know, and those are the people who I would say definitely don't go towards the struggle, you know? And it sounds like you're definitely whether, whether you're calculating the risk, you know, ahead of time, which is smart. That's what anybody should do. You know, you don't necessarily let it deter you from pushing forward. You're going to push forward.
Walter:Yes. Um, like, um, part of me is looking at this, like, it's one big video game, you know, like, um, when you're playing video games, you invest all these times to leveling up your character and, uh, getting all these skills that you didn't get to carry with you. So it's like it's doing that in real life, um, by working on how you perceive the world and what you carry with you and what you choose to well on and what you choose to let it go. Um, so, uh, I look at struggles that way, what am I going to, what skillset am I going to pick up for going through that, that skill set, I think gives no value to me then I'm probably going to try and avoid that struggle. Yeah. I got the only, we only have so much time, you know
Gretchen:Yeah. In this life there and getting up from
Walter:It when I can invest that same time over here, then they get some dividends.
Gretchen:Have you done any, um, work in so far as whether it's certain books you read or courses you've taken or, um, any spiritual practices that you engage in on a regular basis to be able to keep pushing forward? You know what I mean, to be able to keep living the life that you're living, the way you live it,
Walter:I'm constantly watching YouTube videos where people are talking about, um, either how to basically how to manage, um, personal relationships, either business or friendships or intimate relationships. Um, cause to me, that's, that's where you can level up yourself as a person and be able to carry those lessons with you forever. Um,
Gretchen:Connection. So you'd spend a lot of time working on connections.
Walter:Yeah. Well, okay. So if, um, if I can level up myself such that, um, uh, I feel like my interactions with people are beneficial to us, both like, um, I read, uh, read and watch a lot about like management techniques and, um, what it's like to, to be a good leader and, um, how to communicate with people in ways that are fulfilling for both of them. Um, so like, I feel if you can level up yourself as a person like that, then that's not only a benefit to you, but it's a benefit to anybody that you're then in contact. But yeah. Um, so that's been a kind of gift you're giving, but it's
Gretchen:Service
Walter:For the benefit of everybody just by having yourself, um, so much in line so much in check and knowing so much about how you work as a person, how you tick, how your human machine functions and what your triggers are and, um, and how to avoid certain things and how to steer into other things. It's like, that just helps everybody, the more you're on the correct page of how you function, the more good you do for everybody. So I, I see it almost as a public service, I think everybody should do. And we all know that one person who hasn't done any of that work, a nightmare to be around.
Gretchen:Exactly. And that's, and that's the crux of it. That's the whole concept of spiritual accountability. You know, it's like you're putting in that time, in that work to know yourself and by knowing yourself and knowing like you said, how you work and what your triggers are and what you need to grow. Um, personality wise, identity wise, uh, interconnection, you know, skill-wise and what you also feel that you have mastered to a point where you can offer it as a service to others, you know, to help them grow and evolve. It's like, that's, it's that doing that personal check-in, you know, is the core concept of spiritual accountability.
Walter:Um, I totally agree with that. And I shouldn't get it's work that you don't get out of doing, everybody's got to do this work eventually. So, um, it's, it's only, uh, only benefits you to get a handle on this dinner. Yeah. Um, especially if you're somebody who's goal oriented, um, just because the goal ends up supplanting, most of the work you would do as a person. So, uh, people just end up chasing the goal and, or chasing the goal, chasing the goal, chase the goal. Um, and it's when they succeed and then get the goal, that's when, uh, they almost feel like they're adrift because it's like chasing this thing so long. And now that I have it, I don't know do with myself.
Gretchen:Yeah. It's the whole concept of toxic success. You know, it's like if success is the core function, you know, it's, if it's how you raised, you know, to believe that everything is, is an achievable goal, when those are the milestones of your life and you just keep setting, you know, bigger and bigger goals, the problem is, is you start really becoming a well-oiled machine. And instead of taking 20 years to accomplish that goal, it takes you 10. And then like you said, now what you spent your whole life chasing something that you thought you wouldn't have for a decade from now, and now that you have it. And usually it's the pinnacle, like what, what now? Like how you don't, you've never learned a skillset on how to pivot, because you don't know yourself. You know, you know, this being that account that went this far and had this as a goal, it's a very linear development. And now that you've accomplished it, you have no clue how to go chase something else.
Walter:Yeah. Well, and I think people think that, um, you know, like accomplishing a goal that somehow you'll get to keep carrying that forward. Like that, that somehow gets you somehow get to rely on it. And it's like, no, once that project's done, someone gives you another like, so any, any good work you did on any of that stuff? Cool. You did it, but it's in the past, you don't, you don't get to keep that. But the personal work you do on yourself that you get to keep and carry with you from assignment to assignment, project to project thing to thing. Um, so it's like, uh, if all you're doing is working on the, the, the goals, it's like almost investing a bunch of time into leveling up a character in this video game and then going, okay, I don't play that anymore. I play another game and I got to start from scratch. It's like, no, they care. You, you need to work on that thing that carries over time over. So that's you as a person because you're the only thing. That's the constant, every time you get assigned to an assignment that the constantly to do
Gretchen:Well, and that's your value, that's why you're the one that they are going to have the assignment happen. You know, it's like, that's, that's, that's why you're valuable. You know? So if you only develop to a certain point, then, uh, you're going to become obsolete pretty quickly.
Walter:Yes. Great.
Gretchen:Come to yourself, provides unbiased, easily accessible information from the top scholars in the fields of transpersonal psychology and consciousness studies, coupled with personal insights, from successful artists, musicians, and business professionals, to anyone looking to start their spiritual journey, to discover and serve their soul's mission in life. Thank you for listening.